Wednesday, July 8, 2009

Wednesday Longish run

East Portal of the Moffat Tunnel.

am) 16 miles. I ran an out and back starting at 8400ft and turning around at 9200ft altitude (above is a pic of my turnaround point). 2700+ ft of total climbing with an average pace of 7:04 per mile and average HR of 148. On the return 8 miles (downhill) I ran a heartlek (that's my version of a fartlek by heart rate). I would start at HR 145 and push to HR 165 then ease up and jog back to HR 145. I was consistently hitting 5:30 pace on each push for roughly 1:00-2:00 before HR elevated. The recoveries took a bit longer to get HR back down but I was able to hold ~6:30-6:40 pace and still get HR to 145.
I was also happy with the climb out. Holding 7:20--7:30 pace for much of it with a max HR of 150.
For the locals... I ran from Rollinsville up to East Portal Moffat Tunnel.
Below is my data.

Note: I weighed 138 pounds this morning after drinking 1 liter of water then peeing clear. This makes me nervous but my training logs don't show any problems. Crazy to think that I raced my best Ironman weighing 155-160 pounds. I'm 20 pounds lighter.


dude said...

you looked fairly healthy ;)

do you have old pics to compare your body composition? (no need to post them, mind you)
i wager you have lost not only upper body muscles but also thigh and butt muscles.

Lucho said...

I think it's mostly quads and shoulders. I've never had an ass. Also glycogen storage can add/ subtract a lot of weight. From what I've read- the body can't store glycogen as well at altitude. If I was too light it would show in my training. My slowest Ironmans (both the bike and the run) came when I weighed 145 pounds. Too lean for sure and I lost a lot of strength.

jameson said...

what do you think your ideal race (marathon) weight it is? what are trying to hit for chicago?

Josh said...

That's interesting regarding glycogen storage at altitude. I've wondered about that. I've been a touch heavier ever since I moved to Madison. Then again it could be the beer, cheese, and cold winters and wanting to fit in with the locals.

Lucho said...

Jameson- Good question. I'm trying not to control my weight right now. You're probably in a similar boat, but I struggle more with simply trying to eat enough. When I trained for Ironman I would keep food logs just to make sure I ate enough. 6000-7000 calories on my big days. Alan Culpepper used to tell me to "eat to maintain" and I would probably lose weight, and he is right. The altitude does have a big effect on hunger and I'm rarely hungry so I have to be diligent. I don't want to lose any more weight though, especially muscle. I want to be a strong old guy, not a fragile one.

Josh- Beer and cheese... yum.

Matt said...

2700ft. and those HRs . . . nuts. Do you know what you're missing? Promise you'll do a "big" mountain race after Chicago.

Just for the hell of it.

Ironboom said...

How much did you weigh at Denver last year?

Lucho said...

Ironboom- Denver was 16 weeks after I raced Ironman Arizona. I think I was ~148-150 on race day?

Eric said...

Hey Tim,
My name is Eric Jensen I'm from MN. I am kind of a lurker as one would say. Follow your posts every now and again and enjoy it. As a recovering ironman geek (been as fast as 9:55 and as slow as 15:36), I was wondering if you ever go thru like jealousy or envy of guys still doing it, do you miss it or are you perfectly okay with just running? I struggle with not being able to race IM anymore (4kids and a business) and want to just run,maybe improve my marathon PR (3:10) or do some ultra's, but I have fears of like you said today, losing some of my muscle mass and becoming too scrawny, and when I look at race results and see guys out riding training I get filled with envy. How did you overcome this? Hope you don't mind a stranger's ?.

Ironboom said...

Lucho, you're going to smash this race. Just be smart over the next 3 months. Do what's been working for you and don't try something new (e.g. Massage :-) ) in the weeks leading up to the race.

I remember reading on your blog when you first started marathon training only that were discussing with Chuckie V? about gradually changing your body composition to that of a pure runner. Seems as though you have. Well done. Keep up the good work.

Lucho said...

Hey Eric- I think about Ironman every day and miss it a ton. There are things I don't miss like 5k swims at 5:00am and biking in traffic. I miss being super fit and strong though, as a sub 10 guy you know what I mean. Being able to put in huge hours and train like an animal in 3 hard disciplines. I notice now that my shoulders are weak and my upper body gets tired easily- chopping wood helps me a lot with that, but it's not the same. I also used to lift ~3 times a week which I don't do anymore. I miss the triathlon scene too, the running scene is unbalanced and boring to me.
Having 2 sons allows me to not regret my decision to retire though, it was the right thing to do. Running has always been my favorite (although I was a more talented cyclist) and I am quite happy to be just running now, but I find that I love training alone and I still like the numbers which are throw backs to Ironman. It's a different challenge is all and it's a big challenge, which is good. I don't think I could ever compete with out very lofty goals that force me to push myself like I used to for Ironman. In other words- I doubt I could just run for fun and would probably lift weights a ton and bike a lot if I wanted to just have fun and be healthy. I can see myself after I turn 40 trying to put my muscle back on and maybe make that my next challenge. I know for sure that in terms of health, being under weight as we age is not a good thing. I don't want to be frail when I'm 60 and running is not the path. I have also thought maybe I would return to Ironman after my boys get in to school and get older.
So ya, I miss it. But it is what it is and we make good choices or we make bad choices. The choice to be a good father and to be there for your kids is the best choice! I think I would regret it far more if I was still training for Ironman and never had energy to play with my sons!

Lucho said...

Iron- LOL.. massage is certainly not on my pre race check list! That was miserable. I think I have gotten closer to a performance body type. It seems that the altitude has helped to speed it along.
This year for sure I have found a good groove and will keep it rolling. I think the idea of just very gradually injecting harder efforts in to the schedule is good, no sudden changes. Yesterday I held back on effort and cut one interval and today had another great run. I'm learning for sure.
Thanks! I hope you're right about Chicago!

Anonymous said...

that is a great response to eric. and, yeah, after 40, it's really hard to keep muscle mass. ugh.


Lucho said...

DS- I'm sure everyone's responses are different. I know (and coach) a ton of Ironman athletes that make the family, job, Ironman work well. It amazes me that people can do it! My problem is that I could never train or race an Ironman without trying to improve on my best. This would require a huge amount of work upwards of 25-30+ hours a week. Maybe someday I can pull back and relax on that compulsion.

Eric said...

Hello Everyone,
Tim thanks for the response. I am the same. I could go do IM on minimal training and keep a sense of family, but both would suffer and I would not be satisfied. I have chosen to increase strength and maintain some endurance by following the crossfit/crossfit endurance protocol. Seems to be working for me, I am now squatting almost 300lbs, deadlifting 300lbs etc, no gain in huge muscle mass, just strength. I am running a sub 18 5k without "training" for running. Anyway, seems to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I am ok with it now, but really miss IM and the tri scene. Being the best dad I can be is the BEST decision I have ever made, no regrets about "retiring" just get a little jealous of those who can get up at 5 am to train. I can't do that anymore, or should I say I am not willing to do it. My goals have shifted and one day I will return to race IM, maybe when the kids can do it with me. So instead of 6 hour bike rides this weekend I will be at my 9 yo's swim meet! Thanks!

dude said...

Eric - very cool answer by Lucho.

He and I talked about it a little when we jogged last week. I'm a slow version of Lucho (8:59h IM, 12 IMraces). I stopped racing when I started a real job. Just didn't feel like becoming a slave of my lifestyle (just a GF no kids at the time but still...).

Many (semi-)pro triathletes I met in Boulder envied my lifestyle. I bike from time to time but only if I feel like and it can be as short as one hour (I used to be an elite cyclist, putting in 15,000miles a year!).

I guess it boils down to the grass always being greener on the other side. Think about the constant fatigue. Think about never being fully satisfied with your training in all three disciplines.

A lot in tri is about giving you self esteem. If you run daily 30-90 mins. and lift twice weekly 45 mins, you can look better than most triathletes.

Also, if you have plenty "lifetime miles", you are fit enough to go on a cycling week/weekend at a cool place, ride some centuries and have a beer after that.

I think it does not get much better than that. Enjoy your family, many envy your for that.


Lucho said...

Squatting 300 lbs is pretty sweet. I admire that. I can't even bend down and put my shoes on with out feeling it. Strength like that will pay off huge for you for the rest of your life. Just don't hurt your back.

Uli- "slower version"!? Hardly.. I miss the bike most I think. I gave away or sold all my Merlins. As I mentioned before- a sweet bike is the sweetest thing. Someday for me... a Ti cross bike!

Eric said...

You guys are awesome, yes there is nothing like a SWEET bike! Part of the reason I don't want to give up my crossfit is because of the strength gains I have made. 2 years ago I was just a scrawny endurance geek and could barely squat 135. My DL was even less. I could not do more than 5 pullups in a row. Just whipped off 42 in a row over lunch today. And yes Uli, like you said, I CAN hop on a bike when I want and still ride well, not race-like but well and can still run an hour or two on the trail if I want. My body comp is much better than it was even as the fittest tri guy. You guys have cetainly helped me feel better about my choice! I appreciate it. Tim, got the back thing covered, I am a chiro and I get very good care! If you ever get a chance look at and Totally flies in the face of most accepted training,but it has been good for me. In no way is this meant to be a plug. Just to look at what I mean when I talk about it. Thanks for the ears guys!