am) 12 mile progression run. The last 3 miles were at marathon effort with out looking at my watch. 17:10 or 5:43 pace. Still too fast in regards to KC which is at ~800 feet altitude. Bob and I have been discussing whether or not you adjust pace due to altitude. 5:43 pace is exactly what I want to hold for the first 13 miles at KC... but because of altitude it won't be the same effort. If I did make the adjustment then my marathon effort at altitude would be ~5:53 pace or about 10 seconds per mile slower. Alan has told me that you don't adjust on relatively short efforts but longer ones you do.
pm) 8 miles- 50:01. Felt moderate/ easy.
12 comments:
T - sounds good.. here are some others off the top of my head.
www.countdown2012.blogspot.com
www.mucholucho.blogspot.com
www.coachlucho.blogspot.com
www.londonscalling.blogspot.com
Name change? Did someone copyright your name?
I like the new idea, but I think it ties you down too much.
What if you switch to competitive water aerobics or something? ;)
2.19.blogspot.com
Hey Tim,
You might not remember me but we went on a several training sessions together (2years ago) when i just started to train for DU's. On one of them, we did the infamous something (can't remember the name of the trophy)Trophy race simulation with E and one of your athletes. E is my coach.
Are u still here in the Boulder area? If so, I would love to synch up for some runs and/or rides if you are still riding sometime. I have been training by myself and it is a real drainer. E is a couch potato these days (just kidding E, in case you are reading this) and I can't seem to find folks to train with out here because they are so damn individualistic (snobby too). :-) On the runs in particularly. Anyhow, let me know. It will have to be in several months though before I get back into somewhat of descent shape since I got hit by a car on a training ride about 6 weeks ago. Are u game?
So, I digressed somewhat to my posting. To clarify, 1) I am not running the Boston Marathon. A friend of mine is, 2) I should of been more specific that the 30 miles a week is what this person is doing currently with no real structure of intensity workouts or real long runs. Just going out and just running for running sake. So this is not the average so to speak, it's what the individual is doing currently. Also, the person hasn't done anything over that weekly mileage.
Great feedback Tim and I really appreciate it. I am somewhat familiar with Alan and Brad's guidance with Alan on his training for the 04' Trials and Boston Marathon. I believe they incorporated some of Canova's philosophies as well in the training. What is Brad's book called?
On another note, why would you jump from week 9 to week 20? After a weeks rest from a race. Doing the math and also skipping the most demanding phase (phase 3 intensity) doesn't add up to me? Maybe you and I can get together for lunch (I am buying) and you can explain it to me. Be that as it may, here is what i have drafted so far. I would love to hear your feedback and Mike's as well and whomever else would like to chime in here. Keeping this plan fluid as you said Tim as well as E, and others.
Per our conversation.
Goal: Run a 3:14 at Boston in 09'.
Background: Best time for a marathon was 3:31 (8:05 pace) in Denver in May 08'. Just recently did a 1:16 10 miler (7:41 pace) in Denver in Sept. and a 5k at 20:16.
Now, I based around 52 miles at "peak" mileage which maybe too high of a payload. not sure. Guess work here and will monitor appropriately. So I would start out at 30 miles in the beginning of the first week in the first phase. Each Phase will have 3 to 4 days of easy runs between Q1 and Q2 sessions and seven days of easy after a Half-Marathon or 6 days easy after a 10 miler. Basically using the 3k race rule.
In the Phase 1 (7 weeks ),
2 quality workout sessions per week. Q1 (being Long Runs -25% of total weekly mileage) and Q2(uphills either 3 to 6x10-12sec bursts/sprint on a gradient to stimulate fast twitch muscles or 3x30sec to 1min steady-fast on gradient with full recoveries. warm-up 1.5 and cool down 1.5 miles after hill session. 3 to 4 days of easy sessions in between Q1 and Q2. 6 workout sessions a week.
Basically, Tues-Sun training sessions with Monday's off. The easy sessions of 30 minutes with some strides in one of those easy days. During this phase the mileage would increase every 3rd week based off the formula of 1 mile per session. At the end of week 6, that would be 36 miles (30 + 6 sessions). Also, I would replace the Q1 or Q2 session with a tempo run in Week 6 to gauge VDOT level fitness and recalibrate.
In Week 7, I would do a reassement of mileage load and lower mileage to 32 as a break with still having a Q1( long run session 2 hours or 25% of total weekly mileage which ever is less) and Q2 session(either 3 to 6x10-12sec bursts/sprint on a gradient to stimulate fast twitch muscles or 3x30sec to 1min steady-fast on uphill gradient with full recoveries). warm-up 1.5 and cool down 1.5 miles after hill session.
In the phase 2 (6 weeks with 1 week of recovery),
In Week 8, I would move the weekly mileage back up to 41.5 miles with Q1 (Long Run at Easy pace 2 hours or 25% of total weekly mileage on rolling hills) and Q2 (sets of 4min hard with 3min recoveries to total 8% of weekly mileage or 10k, whichever is less).
In Week 9, I would keep the weekly mileage at 41.5 with Q1 (2miles Easy pace+20min T pace +20min Easy) and Q2 (sets of 1,000m, 1200m or Mile downhill at I pace with 3/4/5min recovery jogs to total lesser of 6% of weekly mileage and 8k).
In Week 10, I would move the mileage down to 36.5. Q1 (Long run at Easy pace 2.5 hours or 25% of total weekly mileage, whichever is less) and Q2 (sets of 1,000m, 1200m or Mile at I pace with 3/4/5min recovery jogs to total lesser of 6% of weekly mileage and 8k).
In Week 11, I would move the mileage up at 46.5. Q1 (Long Run at Easy Pace2.5 hours or 25% of total weekly mileage, whichever is less) and Q2 (Sets of 1000m, 1200m or Mile at I pace on gradual downhill).
In Week 12, I would keep the mileage the same at 46.5. Q1 (10miler or Half-Marathon Race at Goal Pace) and Q2 (2miles Easy pace+ 2x10min at T pace with 2min rests+30min Easy pace). Gauge VDOT fitness Level and recalibrate if necessary.
In Week 13, I would lower the mileage at 36.5. All easy days with Long Run Easy 25% of weekly mileage.
In Phase 3 (6 weeks ),
In Week 14, I would increase mileage to “Peak Mileage” at 52. Q1 (long run at E pace 2.5 hours or 25% of weekly mileage) and Q2 (2miles E pace + 3x10min T pace with 2min recoveries on rolling hills + 2 miles E pace)
In Week 15, I would keep the mileage the same at 46.5. Q1 (2miles Easy pace + 4x5/6min gradual downhill at T pace with 1min recovery+ 1hr Easy pace + 15 to 20min T pace on gradual downhill + 2miles Easy pace) and Q2 ( 2miles Easy pace + 4x1mile T pace with 1min recoveries + 5min Easy Pace + 3x1mile Threshold pace with 1min rest + 2miles Easy pace)
In Week 16, I would decrease mileage to 41.5. Q1 (2miles Easy pace+12/13 miles or 100min Goal pace on gradual uphill to flat whichever is less+2miles Easy pace) and Q2 (2miles Easy pace +2x15to20min T pace with 3min rests+10to12min Threshold pace+ 2miles Easy pace).
In Week 17, I would increase mileage to “Peak Mileage” at 52. Q1 (Long Run 2.5 hours or 25% of week’s total mileage, whichever is less) and Q2 ( 2miles Easy pace + 4x1mile T pace with 1min recoveries on gradual downhill + 5min Easy Pace + 3x1mile T pace with 2min rest on gradual downhill + 2miles Easy pace).
In Week 18, I would decrease mileage to 46.5. Q1(2miles Easy pace + 2x10min to12min Threshold pace with 2min recoveries on gradual uphill + 10miles or 80min Easy pace whichever is less+ 15 to 20min Threshold pace on gradual uphill+ 2miles at Easy pace.) and Q2 (2miles Easy pace + 8x5/6min Threshold pace with 30sec rests +2 miles easy).
In Week 19, I would decrease mileage to 36.5. Q1 (Half-Marathon Race at Goal pace.) and Q2 (No Q2).
Phase 4 (6 Weeks)
In Week 20, I would increase mileage to “Peak Mileage” at 52. Q1( Long Run Easy Run 22miles or 2.5 hours whichever is less) and Q2(2x20min Easy pace+ 20min Threshold pace)( + 2miles Easy pace)
In Week 21, I would decrease mileage to 41.5. Q1(2miles Easy pace+ 4x5/6 Threshold pace with 1min rests+10miles or 80min Easy Pace on downhill grade whichever is less+ 4x5/6min Threshold pace with 1min rests+2miles Easy pace) and Q2(1hour Easy pace+ 6x5/6min Threshold pace with 1min rests+ 15min Easy pace)
In Week 22, I would decrease mileage to 36.5. Q1(Long Easy Run at 22miles or 2.5 hours whichever is less) and Q2(2x35min to 40min Easy pace+ 15min to 20min at Threshold pace on gradual uphill)+ 2miles Easy pace).
In Week 23, I would keep the mileage the same at 36.5. Q1(2miles Easy pace+ 15miles or 2.5 hours at Goal pace on gradual downhill whichever is less + 2miles Easy pace) and Q2(2x20min Easy pace+ 15 to 20min Threshold pace) + 2miles Easy pace.
In Week 24, I would decrease mileage to 31.2. Q1(2miles Easy pace+2x10min to 15min Threshold pace with 3min rests+ 30 to 45min Easy pace) and Q2(2x35min to 40min Easy pace+15min to 20min Threshold pace) + 2miles Easy pace.
In Week 25 and final week,
7 Days out: 1.5 hour Easy pace run
6 Days out: 1 hour Easy pace + 4 to 6 strides
5 Days out: 2miles Easy pace + 4x1200m at Threshold pace with 2min rests + 2miles Easy pace
4 Days out: 40 to 50min Easy pace + 4 to 6 strides
3 Days out: 30min Easy pace + 4 strides
2 Days out: 0 to 30min Easy pace
1 Day out: Dayoff or 30min Easy pace
Stephen Dupree duper@secureforce.jobs
I love mucho lucho! Londoncalling is pretty good too. Maybe it's a reflection of where my head is at but jog hard sounds like, well jog hard. Not cool.
Jog hard? Insert Beavis and Butthead obvious joke here.
I still like frankcastle but I don't think it supports the direction you are going (or want to attract).
how about makeyourteethsweat.blogspot.com?
takeyourdressoffandrun.blogspot.com?
checkersnotchess.blogspot.com?
It is Tuesday. Methinks you have something else going on today ... like a workout ... pray tell.
No more Lucho... my last name isn't Luchinske anymore. Although I guess a nickname is OK. 2.19.blogspot is cool but doesn't say too much about the content of my blob.
Formulaic.. that's funny. It does sort of lock me in to the sport and I always had a dream of being a cage fighter... I guess I can change it again.
Londonscalling is good.. a nice "Clash" reference there.
GZ- those are good but too long I think. Although with bookmarks I guess it doesn't matter. Takeyourdressoffandrun may get blocked my NannyWatch on some computers though.. plus draw an unsavory crowd? checkersnotchess looks like checkers notchess. Isn't that Spanish?
I think joghard is perfect for my own thought processes in regards to the sport.. half the time I'm confused.
Its about time! How about Wag-something? Or do you want to leave names out of it? Can't wait to see you and Benny in KC!
Sis- How is wagrunner? ha.
I'm psyched to come out!
T
Hey Luchio
keep it rollin...Falk Cierpinski went 2:13 at Berlin last week...not bad for an ex Triathlete...he dropped 2 minutes from 2007 time mailny by dropping his 10k time 30sec to 29:15 in 2008 and keeping the mileage up.....
you need your baselines for 10k as well man.....
With regards to Alan's comments on altitude, if there is x% more oxygen, then you could lower your effort x% to keep the same pace I would think. Thats at least my logical (non-scientific) opinion.
So I could see if you are talking short races, then a little extra/lower effort probably doesn't matter, but it would add up over time so it does matter at (say) a marathon distance.
But logically speaking, I would think it would affect you %wise at any distance. There may be some relation to a person's vO2 max as well...
If you have a goal pace and you're dropping altitude, I say stick with that same goal pace. If you end up with extra energy in the tank at 13.1, even better.
Scott- Agreed.. to truly race a marathon you need relative speed at the shorter distances.
Brett-
Part of the reasoning behind not making an adjustment is that you need the rhythm and neuromuscular training to hold pace for 26 miles. In order to run 5:40 pace I need to train at 5:40 pace so my muscles are trained specifically to the task. I agree that it's best to train at goal pace at altitude and then on race day hope the pace feels easier.
Jog hard. That's my new signature..
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