Over-all this was not a hard run but I definitely felt mentally weak at mile 19 and eased up. Which is a huge problem for me, always has been. I don't have the toughness to gut it out when it gets difficult. It's frustrating but I see it and I think these runs will help me to solve the problem.
I've sort of been trying to come up with a altitude conversion for my goal marathon pace at Chicago. It's quite tough because most of the research done is on athletes that come from sea level and race at moderate altitude. Or athletes that do a short training camp at altitude then race at sea level. I've looked at Ryan Halls workouts VS his marathon times. It gets sticky trying to decipher all this. One thing I know is that PE (not pace) will be a huge focus. Not HR necessarily. There is also a HR discrepancy between altitude and sea level. The test on the track will help, but the low altitude tests will still be at 5300ft altitude. I know the longer I am here the less I am affected by the altitude, so if I do convert I am going to be conservative. Maybe something like 15" per mile slower at 8200ft? I think it's useless to really try to convert paces until I have raced a few marathons or half marathons after my training up here.
A loose strategy for me will be to try to do longer intervals at goal pace to make sure my legs can handle the stress. Maybe something like 5-6 X 2 miles?
The hills up here are ridiculous- literally not a flat quarter. So getting down to Boulder for the longer marathon pace runs will help.
Start paying attention to marathon perceived exertion? Right now it feels like ~5:45-ish. But then I hit a big climb and that goes to crap! Do more on the track in Nederland..
13 comments:
Dude, I totally waffled on whether I was going to post this at all but seeing as you brought it up yourself today I felt like it was time. As someone who respects you as an athlete and a coach and from someone who wants to see you achieve your goals, I feel like I'd be remiss if I didn't say this, here, in a public forum where you'll have to step up to it: I love to hear you dropping knowledge when it comes to training protocol and physiology. It's made me a far better runner and your influence and guidance has continued well beyond the time of our formal coaching relationship.
That said, I think that the key to you achieving your potential as a runner lies elsewhere.
If you don't train your mind with the same systematic approach you train you legs I don't believe you'll ever run to your potential. Not because you can't but because you didn't.
There are dozens of great books and resources out there detailing specific strategies used by elite athletes to prepare for peak mental performance on race day and yet I can't recall you ever referencing one even though the mental aspect of racing is your self assessed weakest point.
Would you expect elite results from a training plan that consisted of the occasional hard workout with the hope that your legs would 'get used to it' and be ready come race day? And yet, that is the approach you take in the area of your running that has held you back the most. How many tough workouts endured until the mind is prepared? Surely you must be there and beyond. It takes more. Physiologically you have been a sub 2:20 runner. On a great day I think you are capable of 2:15. But I challenge you to prepare what's in your skull with the same tenacity, curiosity, vigor and relentless pursuit of excellence that you train what's in your shoes and prove it on race day when it counts.
Lucho-
The link below contains some ideas from Gordo on running. Looks like he's been reading Canova as well;)
http://www.xtri.com/features_display.aspx?riIDReport=5685&CAT=21&xref=xx
Fatdad- Whatever.
Just kidding! I appreciate the comment completely. The mental side of this is by far the most complicated aspect, both as a coach and as an athlete. I never feel qualified to assess an athlete's mental state and have to rely simply on my own experience. I think it's even harder to self analyze. I've tried over the last year to really look at who I am and try to be a better person on a personal level. With my jogging it seems more complicated though. One of my athletes recently talked to me at length on the weakness in my racing and she believes it comes down to the importance of my placing. I never fight for places in a race, instead I'm quite OK with getting beat. I tend to enjoy training far more than racing, to the point where I don't even want to race because I might miss a workout. Funny. I'm not sure how to shift my thinking towards placing more importance on races.
I'm lazy about reading sports psychology books, no excuse other than that. It seems so tedious which is stupid because I have the discipline to strive and work to be my best! I'll take your challenge- I love challenges.
Thanks a ton!
Josh-
I'm surprised at the intensity in this:
137-143 = Steady
151-155 = Mod-hard
158-163 – Threshold
I am running quite a bit more conservatively. My numbers would line up here:
140-150 = steady
160-170 = mod-hard
172-178 = Threshold
Gordo is ~20 beats below LT on his aerobic runs and I'm ~28 beats below.
Lucho-Mental training...pffft, whatever. haha
I wonder if emphasizing the importance of racing is the right approach for you given your great love of training. Mabye mentally turning the race into 'just another workout' is the way to free you up to just get out and get after it. Who knows...
As for self examination and personal improvement, I agree with you 100%. Dont kill, dont steal: Easy. Run faster: Not so much. I'm sure that there are a lot of great people out there who can't run worth a sh*t! haha
Anyways, just get your act together so I can brag about knowing someone in the Trials!
Wait... I'm not supposed to kill either? Damn. My wife went to the library today and got me 2 books on sports psych.. Thanks again.
Lucho-
Ive seen more athletes with that profile, about a 20bpm spread from AeT to LT than your spread. In fact my numbers line up almost exactly with Gordo's when tested in their lab and when I pay close attention to my breathing markers as well as TTs.
Here is a question that I know has been brought up to you before but I will toss it out there again. I know you are tough as nails, look at your freaking training!! However, if you are running above LT in your marathon no matter how fit you are you will NOT be able to continue in a competitive manner. There is a disconnect somewhere and I don't know what it is but I really and highly doubt that it is your mental toughness.
I learned a similar lesson this week which is no matter how fit you are you have to fuel. I did a half and really neglected my calories and then got pissed at myself because I couldn't lift my effort at the end and accomplish a run split in line with my current fitness. My bike power was exactly what we predicted with limited spikes but I just couldn't run well. AC basically told me that you can't run if you don't eat after 3hrs+ of racing...duh. I think there is something similar going on with you. We are all human and have certain limitations that are just due to physiology. Running above your threshold for more than an hr, ie 2.5hrs, just doesn't work. Now, I'm just guessing at this but let me know what you think. Once again, you are as tough as they get and pretty darn smart so...
Josh- My lab tested LT before Denver was 179 and my max HR during the race was 170 with an average of 166... Not sure what you're thinking here? Of course it would be ridiculous to even come close to LT in a marathon, this is a given. My goal is to bring AeT PACE closer to LT PACE.
Josh- One more thought.. I would never train at AeT in a base period. AeT is slightly higher than marathon goal effort, way too intense in my opinion. AeT is very specific in terms of race intensity- it's been shown that doing too much AeT work too early leads to plateaus. It's only in the last 8 weeks before a marathon that you focus on AeT intensity. AeT is going to be ~8-14 beats below LT for most highly trained runners. My HR of 140-150 is WELL below AeT.
Lucho-
I didn't know you had gotten an LT test prior to Denver. That was more or less my question. Hmmm...now it makes even less sense ;)
I think we are a bit crossed with regards to terminology. I think of AeT as your base building zone or your 140-150ish, what I would call steady.
I consider LT the top of moderate hard zone (mod hard being AeT to LT)and then Functional threshold or anaerobic threshold what you consider LT. I have never seen a "science" where the terminology is so all over the place.
Anyway, I think that is where our mix up is. I totally agree with your second statement...but then again I have trained with you and your ideas are very logical on the mark, and frankly...work for athletes.
Yep- Terminology is the key here I think.
My definition of AeT is 2.0-2.3 mmol of lactate in the blood. Which corresponds with marathon pace/ intensity.
However- and this just came to me- you're definitions are Ironman based and mine are marathon based. The marathon is run MUCH more intensely than IM... so I think we're both right? :) Funny.
I am meeting with Gordo on Tuesday and we are doing an LT test. He'll help me understand it better I'm sure!
Cheers!
Yep, I'm thinking more along the lines of Ironman. My marathon pace would be mod-hard running for sure. That scares the crap out of me, running mod-hard for 26 miles.
Let us know what G has to say.
Regarding being ahead of the game, if you are still making progress why would you change anything?
J
Josh- It always surprises me how hard you can run for a marathon.
I would consider changing something once I plateau in pace, this would indicate I need to move to the next period. I also don't want to peak too early which I tend to do because I respond so quickly to training. I still have 17 weeks to go.
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