Monday, May 25, 2009

Monday Bolder Boulder 10k

I have zero leg turnover and no speed. 34:39 official time which doesn't match my GPS splits too well.
Mile 1- 5:15
Mile 2- 5:34
Mile 3- 5:39
Mile 4- 5:40
Mile 5- 5:27
Mile 6- 5:28
This went about right in terms of where my training is. The first mile put me over the edge a little and I tried to carry the pace in to mile 2. My legs never felt tired or really burned, I just couldn't breath. This is something I have read about in regards to dropping too much altitude. It makes little sense and I haven't found an explanation. It happens more commonly with a very intense race. I recovered after relaxing way up and the last 2 miles felt comfortable and relaxed and my breathing came back. No kick- just cruised in. My cool down mile was in 6:20 and I felt great. I'm fairly optimistic now. The last month has been nothing but low HR, basically jogging, mileage. Back to it tomorrow- low HR high mileage for the next couple of months at least.


Trev said...

33:03 doesn't seem that slow to me. I'm hoping to break 36 min this year!

Lucho said...

34:39 official time..

RunColo said...

Tim, if you didn't recognize me that was me at Mile 5 who hollered "Lucho",I was wearing a hat, et al.

Nice work!

GZ said...

Simon - I saw you at 5. It took me a sec but I called your name. Thanks for being out there.

Lucho - did you have a HR monitor. I sort of hope not but if you did, it would be interesting to see the data.

Dude - you are crazy strong. My nickel, keep doing what you are doing ... jump in a race once a month to keep the edge. Great seeing you this AM and nice job today.

Lucho said...

Ya Simon- I pointed to you and said hey.. thanks for being out there!

GZ- I kept thinking you would come up to me around mile 4! No HR monitor but I can give a very good estimate...
Mile 1- 170-175
Mile 2-4- 180
Mile 5-6- 170.
Agreed- I'll be doing my thing as only I do...
It was great to see you out there too. Funny that I pulled in to Scott Carpenter right in front of you.
Shoot me a heads up if you run out on Hiway 93 this week..

Brett said...

Great race. What does that scale out to if you ran that 4.2 times - 2:25? Seems like you've been doing a lot of low HR work and then threw this race in, as opposed to peaking up for it with a bunch of tempo and speed work. I would say thats a great great result...given that plus the altitude of the race.

I went and looked up Uli Steidl as he just did a Sub 2:20 marathon recently (almost 2:20 to be exact).

If you look at his Training Log you'll note he did a 10k race back on March 3rd at 30:36.

I think you mentioned having to get close to 30 flat to break 2:20 (although things vary), so this is another datapoint in that direction that I thought might be interesting.

Lucho said...

Thanks Brett- So far I haven't found anything useful in helping me to train at high altitude. So I'm just going to do what I know works for me and ignore what I'm 'supposed' to be doing according to others. No disrespect to your comment, I appreciate it!
I wonder about the 10k conversion to the marathon since the 10k uses a completely different metabolism and is run well over LT where the marathon is run well under LT (IE: they aren't related). I would say that my easy jogging HR has more physiological relevance to a marathon than a 10k as it shows relevant fuel usage. I think the year Paula ran 2:15 her 10k time wasn't fitting. I also don't see how it is possible to train 10k physiology at 8200ft altitude. But- in the end I've still got a lot to learn and it's looking like I'll be doing it all by trial and error.
Thanks Brett!

GZ said...

Okay - so we are straying into a side conversation here, and not one specifically tied to how you ought to train ... but one that I have noodled on for a bit. My general observation (hardly scientific) is that there are mixed data (and a lot of subjective stuff) re: 10k to marathon relationship. You have folks like Paula running 30 minutes and then 2:15. But then you have guys like Alberto who said his best marathons came when he trained like a 10k guy - and not a marathoner. The experiment of one mantra again, I guess.

Lucho said...

Totally GZ. I think it has a lot to do also with how well you absorb and respond to either intensity or aerobic volume. Guys like Brian Sell- according to popular literature- shouldn't be able to run 2:10. The you have guys like Ritz that should be killing Sell... but aint.
On another note- doesn't it take you a long time to warm-up for workouts? Why the short warm-up for BB?

GZ said...

btw ... you won your ag.

In the past, I used to do no less than a 3 mile warm up. Over time I have noticed that I don't get much more benefit between a 10-15 minute warm-up then I do from a 20-30 minute warm-up. I find this to be more true the longer the event, and to some extent, the steeper the event. 10-15 minutes gets me loose, then some strides, a few dynamic stretches - and I am pretty much ready. HR has been primed, breathing has switched over ...

Yesterday, given I was jacked in some regard, I was not getting anything out of warmup post 10 minutes. Plus there was a natural "amp" of trying to figure out how to get into the damn wave start.

I might do longer warm ups for workouts but that is probably more procrastination to getting work done then anything.

Whatcha thinking?

Lucho said...

Everything that I understand about WU is that you need to get the lactate buffering system working by doing ~30"-1' hard strides to get lactate flowing. Otherwise you get a huge spike in the first mile that can be difficult to buffer. I know guys like Lagat warm up for an hour before a 5000. Geb warmed up for 20:00 before his WR marathon. I think it depends on how hard your going to hammer the first mile. 1.5 miles seems very short for a 10k? I ran 4 miles before I felt loose. And yes- the fight to the front of the corral was quite stressful and could count as a WU!

Brett said...

Looks like you were about 10 feet behind Dave Mackey the entire time. :)

That's some pretty damn impressive company to keep...

Lucho said...

Brett- I don't who he is but I've heard his name, glad I was in good company!

J.P. Patrick said...

You looked silly relaxed at 9K running under 5:30 pace. Your feet were perefctly quite. I have dreams about running that smooth!

Lucho said...

JP- Running economy is a very workable thing. You have a certain amount of biomechanical limitations but there is a lot you can do to improve run form. A few things- arm carriage. Just lift em up! Keep your hands up nearer to your chest and swing from the elbows. Too low of an arm carriage causes your hips to compensate for the longer 'pendulum' of your arms. Foot plant is something to work on, that's what allows you to run quietly. You need to strengthen the resiliency of your soleus so you can land and absorb the impact, then return that energy to the toe off. It's more like a bounce off your midfoot. Jump rope is still the best thing I have found to improve this. Also just being aware of your run form is very helpful. If you have inefficiencies in your form, become aware of them then make small changes.
Stop dreaming about me. :)