Wednesday, October 29, 2008

Wednesday 10 miles + guidance.

I may as well stop trying to plan out my weeks, I never seem to follow the plan. Today was going to be a 15 mile progression run but instead I took it very easy so I can run a track session tomorrow and then have 2 recovery days before my long run. I have been trying the Hudson structured week and it doesn't work well for me yet. At least in this last period... I need more rest.
Bob has been helping me with my schedule. Here is his response to my e-mail in regards to tomorrow's track workout.

Here are the two track workouts. Which one do you think is better?

10 X 1000 in ~3:10-3:15 (~5:10 mile pace) on 1' jogging. This would be my rough estimate for my 10k pace.

2 X 3 miles at 5:25 pace on 1 mile easy jogging. This would be my rough estimate for my 1/2 marathon pace.

I like the 1000's, they are one of my favorite workouts. The 2 X 3 miles seems more race specific though?

Bob's response:
Tough question. I always responded well to the 2x3m type workout. I really liked focusing on relaxing at speed and just hitting every lap exactly the same. When it was going really well I wouldn't even know when I was done without being told. To teach myself pacing discipline I had an unofficial rule that the first mile had to be the slowest and tried not to have any lap more than 2 seconds faster or slower than the previous.
All the track guys hated this type of workout. They all wanted to either go out hard and fade or go out slow and kick.

10 x 1000 is the option I would take if I doubted my ability to do the workout. 8 of these and you still have a good workout and don't feel that bad about bailing. The negative part of this workout is the tendency to mask pacing mistakes by speeding up or slowing down to hit the goal time. The pace is more important than the time per 1000. Not that I'm recommending it but, doing this on the treadmill eliminated that problem.

In Daniels' speak you have a cruise interval workout and a tempo workout. They are supposed to do the same thing. My tendency was to move towards the longer/slower pace workout as I progressed towards the goal race. You spoke of something similar the very first workout we did together on the track.

If you are having doubts, do the 1000s and you can move towards the longer stuff the next couple of weeks. I don't think one is harder than the other it is just more difficult to commit to that second three miler if you aren't feeling good.


Bidou said...

how do you simulate race pace on a treadmill ?
it seems to me that road running is harder than the treadmill, so 5:30/mile on the T-mill won't feel like 5:30 on the road.

Lucho said...

bidou- I agree with you. But only in one regard... effort.
I think leg turnover is about 10"-15" per mile faster on the treadmill yet it's easier because the tread is kicking your leg back rather than you pushing forward. So 6:00 pace on the treadmill would feel like you were running ~5:45 pace if you were outside, yet the effort is lighter. More like running downhill? It's tricky and I think the treadmill is good when you have no option to run quality outside... but as far as race simulation I would still do as much as I could on the roads. I would tell you to do 1 of 2 things. To simulate race effort and get your HR up, increase the grade to ~2%-3% and run at goal pace. OR: Keep the grade set at ~0%-.5% and increase the pace to 10"-15" per mile faster than goal pace.
I think there is benefit to the faster paced leg turnover as it teaches the muscle memory of running faster. There is a lot of neuromuscular stimulation required to hold good economy over 26 miles. The untrained athlete will lose economy as they fatigue. Their legs stop moving in a coordinated way compounding fatigue. Elite runners tend to hold their economy quite high for the entire marathon. This is why high mileage is one aspect of good marathoning. And why a swimmer focusing just on the 100m will swim ~50+ miles per week... economy.
By running on the treadmill I believe (and I've never read this anywhere- it's my own theory), that the increased leg turnover teaches your muscles to be more economical in a fatigued state... you're forced to hold pace. Hope that answers your question?

GZ said...

Lucho - I agree with nearly everything you have said here.

I have read however that the equivalence is about 1.5 percent, so going to 2 to 3% ain't going to be a bad thing!

There is also some consideration that you are not pushing air out of the way when you run on a treadmill.

All said, I still find that treadmill running, once you get your HEAD around it is easier. Having all your water bottles there, the time laid out for you, the pace laid out for you, the distance covered, your HR ... perfect. If you can get your head around it. Some folks go bonkers after running on one for 10 minutes. I have found 20 miles on a mill to be easier than 20 outside (which is more the reason why I should do them outside ... as I don't race on treadmills).

Speed workouts are a bit of a pain in the ass as the mill won't get to speed as fast as you can outdoors. As long as you are ramping up on the start up and then down at the same velocity it should not be that big of a deal.

GZ said...

Additionally, a mill is a great hill emulator. Nothing like miles at 10-15% to put the wobble in your legs.