Thursday, August 28, 2008

Thursday 21 miles.

am) 8 miles recovery jogging with Jeff. We averaged 7:12 pace. These runs have tremendous value for athletes. Hudson equates a run like this to a massage where you're increasing blood flow and loosening up the muscles. We don't hear of the top runners doing runs like this (it's boring), yet they do spend a majority of their running volume at an easy pace. 7:10 pace is ~1:40 slower than my goal marathon pace- so for a 2:10 marathoner this would be equal to their 6:40 pace.. that's about right. Nearly all of the runs that I have done with Alan have been in that range. In order to run high mileage there has to be a lot miles run at an easy effort. Canova breaks his training definitions in to basically 4 "zones" and all are based off of a percentage of goal marathon pace.

Regeneration- runs performed at paces +20% slower than marathon pace.

Slow runs- runs performed at ~10% slower than goal race pace. A majority of running is done here. Note that this pace for me falls in the 6:00-6:10 pace range. Showing that my goal for the marathon is high and my fitness is still developing. In this, I feel that 6:20-6:30 pace is beneficial for me.

Marathon pace- Or slightly lower than true AeT. This range is ~97%-103% of goal pace. So for me this is ~5:40-5:20 pace. In the last 10 weeks I will focusing entirely on these paces.

Anaerobic speed- Or LT pace. This is the training I am focused on now. I am trying to develop my lactate threshold so that my AeT pace is faster. You can only hold a certain percentage of LT pace for a marathon. So the faster your LT pace is- the faster your AeT pace is. This period's focus needs to be placed farther than 8 weeks out from your marathon. Trying to develop your LT with high intensity in the few weeks before a marathon may not work.

pm) 13 miles in 1:27- avg HR 135. Legs felt sluggish but good.


beth said...

good info today, makes sense!
i like the focus on marathon pace the last 10 weeks. seems like a logical way to dial in to that pace completely.
bring it!

Lucho said...

It's being broughten!

Anonymous said...

Tim, what are your thoughts on improving VO2 while training for a marathon?

I realize that you will not run even close to VO2 max and not even at LT pace during a marathon. Thus, the question I have is since marathon pace is always a fraction of your VO2 if you see much use in improving it for the marathon?


Lucho said...

Runcolo- To be honest I don't know for sure how much of a benefit a marathoner would get from a Vo2 focus. The 400's that I have been doing would qualify as Vo2, but they probably should be harder to truly be considered such. The problem that I see with training your Vo2 is that the risk VS reward doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The intensity would be so high that you risk injury. I would guess that it would depend on the athletes Vo2.. if it is poor and they can improve it then do so. For me- as a relatively fit guy- I don't know how much benefit I would really get. The marathon is so moderate in relation to Vo2, I would say to spend more energy developing lactate threshold and power endurance (long runs)? More bang for the buck. Hudson's max effort hill reps might qualify as Vo2, but from what I understand, they are more for power and strength.
A physiologist might (for sure would) disagree with me. I've never been too sold on the Vo2 max as a determiner for fitness potential. Especially once you start training for the marathon. There are so many other, more important, variables that can be exploited and will have a much larger impact on marathon potential. From body composition to high volume endurance. LT and particularly, AeT. If an athlete trains each of these to there fullest potential, then the athlete can achieve great results. Genetics be damned. Look at Brian Sell! That dude is awesome and has broken the mold for what an elite marathoner looks like.
Does that all make sense?

Lucho said...

Besides my atrocious spelling!

Ward said...

Speaking of Brian Sell.. have you had a chance to watch this interview of his post Bejing performance? Check out the shoes..!!

If this link doesn't work try this one..

It's the top left video..

Anonymous said...

It does, thanks.

In 2007, I spent a full summer doing interval training every week. At the start of the year I did a 5k @ 18:18, on little training and no VO2 work. The odd thing was my 5k time never really improved in 2007 from that initial race. I ran an 18:08 a few weeks later but by September I ran an 18:23.

On the flip side, I improved my Half Marathon time from a 1:27 to a 1:21:59 (notice I didn't round up to 1:22).

Thus, this year I have been doing less interval work and more LT/Distance running. I'm running Denver again, I did a 2:58 last year and I'd like to knock off around 5 minutes, hopefully.

Thanks again!

Lucho said...

runcolo- What may have happened with your 5k is that your Vo2 or LT plateaued early from doing a too long period of interval sessions- then you experienced a drop off after the plateau resulting in no improvement. Since the half marathon doesn't rely so much on either, you saw an improvement. It really only takes 8-10 weeks of focused interval training to exploit V02/LT. Then you need to change the stimulus.
Note: Vo2 and LT matter less in a half marathon at our level of running. Of course V02 and LT matter a lot for elite runners in the 1:00 range.