Wednesday, January 26, 2011

Run test part II

 Same run as yesterday with out a 10# Camelbak but at a similar HR intensity.
Yesterday- 10 miles in 1:35 (9:30 per mile) with an average HR of 151.
Today- 10 miles in 1:19:57 (7:59 per mile). Average HR 153. So a ~15:00 disparity. 

 This "test" is by no means definitive or scientific. Just an interesting way to actually see (and feel) the added stress of 10 pounds.
 Holding my HR in the 150's was pretty hard.


Rick said...

Your 7:59 pace vs your 8:42 pace (the 2 runs w/o the added weight) with a difference in average HR of 9 bpm is interesting. Do you think that 9 bpm's can typically make a 7 minute difference in a 10 miler? Or, is it more about where that 9 bpm difference actually is? Is it that, for you, somewhere between 144 and 153 puts you into another zone or something like that?

Woody said...

In my last ultra (100K), I ran with a full 64 oz hydration pack stuffed with a bunch of other goodies. I'm sure the thing weighed 8 lbs. I'm 6'5" & 187 lbs. and can't seem to lose/gain weight. I always thought the extra weight in the pack didn't matter all that much given my size. Now you've got me thinking I need to ditch the pack (or at least the bladder) and make better use of aid stations/drop bags to lighten up my load.

Lucho said...

Rick- And this is partly why (as Brett says) HR is important and then not so much. Many variables affect HR which I actually find as part of the fun in it all- figuring it out. That's also why I said the "test" wasn't too definitive. Here's a few possibilities.
On Monday the footing was worse because the roads weren't as clear.
Yesterday I ran a second run of 7 miles so fatigue plays a role. I felt pretty beat up after the morning run (yesterday) and fatigue will depress your HR.
And one thing I noticed clearly today was that I felt very good to start and it took me ~2 miles before I was able to tip my HR over 150. The first 2 miles today was probably ~4:00 faster (I have a huge climb to start).
So, two totally different days with totally different results. A small part of it is also my level and type of fitness which is great right now. When you're fit you can push harder with less of a HR jump because the increase in pace is less stressful. An unfit runner hitting HR 145 may only see ~10" faster when they hit 155. Elite marathoners (who have developed their AeT to a fine point) can drop from 5:00 pace down to 4:40 during a marathon with little disparity in HR (I assume this because the difference between AeT and LT in an elite marathoner is very small, and going anaerobic at mile 18 of a marathon is a death sentence). I was going from MAF (very easy) to the high 150's (in my AeT range) so the shift in intensity is pretty significant. So specific fitness has a role in this also.
Great question, thanks! You made me think a bit.

Woody- Ya, I switched from the Camelbak for Leadville because if the aid stations are close enough together you aren't carrying extra water. So if the first aid station is, lets say, 5 miles in then you are carrying about 3 pounds more than you need. If it's not really hot you should take in ~20oz of water per hour (that's based on my 150 pound frame so you would need to experiment in training to find your amount). Two handhelds which are easily refilled will usually be plenty and you don't carry too much. I've made mistakes with hydration (too much water) so I've learned the hard way when it's cool out. I was hyponatremic at Collegiate Peaks last year and I wore a Camelbak and it was ~30 degrees at race start. Silly.

Footfeathers said...

Woody, don't ditch the race vest just yet because while you're stopping at every aid station I'm putting 2-3 tenths of a mile on you each station by not stopping.

Lucho said...

Some races the pack is probably better. If the aid stations are far apart maybe and the handhelds won't allow you to carry enough. On a super hilly course I would guess you would lose time with a over full pack or break even. And it only takes ~5" to refill a bottle. It depends too on the support. If you have a good pacer (as I did at Leadville) he can run ahead and grab an extra bladder or bottle. How long does it take you to refill the bladder during a race?

Woody said...

I didn't use a crew/pacer, so I tried to be more on the self-sufficient side. It was nice to skip some aid stations, but refilling the bladder was a pain, despite the volunteers trying to help. I'm going to run Leadville this year (with a crew/pacer), so I'll probably incorporate both the pack & handheld. Maybe I'll only fill the bladder up half way and swap with another when I see my crew. Thanks for the feedback.

Footfeathers said...

I've gone back and forth between pack and bottles. I still use a bottle in certain situations. I've personally come to the conclusion that I use more energy carrying bottles due to centrifugal force, swinging 1.5 lbs in each hand (50,000 arm swings in a 50 mile race) and the added effort to stop, refill, and start back up.

I seem to use less water than many. I ran all of Ghost Town (38.5 miles in 5:21) without refilling and ran the last half of Bear 100 on 70 oz (it was mostly throughout a very cold night). When I do have to refill, I'll have the pack off, bladder cap off (still in its compartment though) and refill it myself. Volunteers are wonderful people but most aren't that efficient (or at least that's my perception when I utilized their help). Regardless, I can refill as fast as water pours into the bladder and only have to do it once for every 30 miles or even further.

A crew is a beautiful thing! Having Aric Manning crew me at Bear made it a special day. He was the life line I always looked forward to seeing at each station. I have the feeling I'll be doing all my 100s this year solo, no pacer, no crew, pure.