Sunday, September 7, 2008

Sunday Not so long run.. 9 miles. Week total 76 miles.

All week- since the race on Monday- I've been really run down. The run with Jeff on Thursday- just 2 days after the race- put me over my fatigue limit I think. 8 miles of 4% down grade at sub 5:50 pace reminds me of why I need to do that more often. I'm still feeling it today! I cut yesterday's mileage and woke up this morning with an ear ache and swollen ear drum. My legs are tight and achey and my energy is quite low. Hopefully by cutting today I can snap out of it. GZ and I met up for this morning, otherwise I would have slept in! I think getting out for a little bit of time though will be better than laying around. It's always good to run with George.. he puts up with my ramblings. Which (I think.. hope?) have transitioned from ranting. Thanks GZ. Nice Camelbak by the way! Now I just need to get you to wear some clothes!

9 comments:

GZ said...

TL - thanks for the run this AM. I don't see our conversations as ranting. It is just a good conversation where we are discussing best ways to train, exploring our limits. I enjoy it.

Get that ear healthy. That shit can really screw a person up.

Uli said...

“So, how would you tell me to run a marathon pace run on a very windy day on a rolling course? Just by feel?”

Yes. Where would you get the right HR from for this day? You are tapered and in peak shape. Totally different to what you experienced in the weeks before.

“ How do you account for heat, wind, hills and specific paces against various conditions?”

You simply know it. You would never start an 80F Marathon the same way you start a 40F race. Try it.

”How do you test athletes to make sure they are progressing with the training?”

When they get stronger, they feel it. Also, races are an important part of preparing an A-race. You can always let them do timetrials but they are not half as effective. How much taper would they do for that? Or would they taper at all?

“In terms of marathon specific fitness a 5k, 10k, or even a half marathon race are not accurate tests.”

I disagree. If you are a Marathon runner and train the usual mix (like 5k reps, 10k intervals, half marathon tempos, long runs) then any the distances you mentionned give some indication. No test will ever be accurate. That is the beauty of racing.

“[...] a HR monitor would allow more accurate assessment of exertion under varying conditions where pace is affected. HR shows inadequate hydration, PE doesn't.”

Hydration is overrated.
Also, would an elevated HR be a sign for dehydration or less fitness?
With increase of fitness your HR “zones” (I do not believe in HR zones but use it for the sake of making my point) change. How do take that into account?
Most important thing though: the heart is not the limiter in marathon running. It is the brain.

”My point is why limit the data collected and the feedback from a session? What use is there in limiting your knowledge? “

To me it is not useful data. Also, it usually confuses athletes. Often they see numbers that shouldn’t be there. This always results in incertainess (sp?) and sometimes even fear (‘what is happening to me?’).

”[...]my HR monitor allows me to run at proper intensity even when I am fatigued.”

How?

“[...] by watching HR I am able to use that as a guide to push myself to to an effort that is still of benefit but not so hard that I over train.”

If HR is not the limiter maybe you actually DO harm.

“[...] it only takes one too hard run to wreck several workouts. “

No doubt.

Hope you are already feeling better when you read this. Take it easy for a couple of days. You know you will bounce back.

I hope to come to Boulder sometime in Winter to go skiing with a kiwi mate who lives there (he’s an OD pro triathlete). Maybe we can do a run then.

Cheers
uli

Lucho said...

Uli- We'll agree to disagree. This comes down to personal belief and I think the HR is beneficial to my learning from training.
Certainly look me up when you come in to town!
I feel terrible today- completely drained and exhausted. I am listening to my body though ;)
Brad Hudson's new book is excellent. He talks about the central governor in there too. I think that concept is huge for endurance athletes. I knwo I've toed the line against athlete much less fit than me.. they beat me because they were able to push harder.
Do you race very often? How much would you rest for a 1/2 marathon in the last 8 weeks before your 'A' marathon? I might race in 2 weeks but don't want to rest too much for it.

Uli said...

"Do you race very often?"

When it fits into life and I have fun doing it, then yes. I know it is good for my performance but I am happy to skip any race if other things in life are more important. I ran good marathons (for my standard) off pure training and good ones off a handful of races. Mentally the marathon was easier when I raced beforehand. The biggest benefit comes from handling race stress and moral boost.

"How much would you rest for a 1/2 marathon in the last 8 weeks before your 'A' marathon?"

Taper as much or little as you like. But please take it into account when you look at the result afterwards.
This could be the time for a PR if it is a fast course/good weather/good competition AND YOU FEEL FASTER THAN EVER. Then I'd taper for a full week. The lost training will be easily compensated by a moral boost. I recently finished third in a 24k race with 1.500 starters (on the famous Nurburgring racetrack). I sure was lucky that only one fast runner was there but it was a big moral boost nonetheless with media attention and the like.

If feel average or the course is difficult/weather bad, I'd do a hard session on Tuesday and may skip the hard Thursday session. Afterwards I'd take it easy until the following weekend. I find that I can race a half fairly well even if I haven't done a proper taper. But it definitely kills the following week. This is where you need to be cautious. I would nearly call it "injury week". Tuesdays are worst. You will feel better by Thursday. But you know all that. ;)

Get well soon, keep us posted

uli

Marco Coelho said...

"Hydration is overrated." "The heart is not the limiter..." I've got to suggestions. One, stop drinking water and see what happens to you on a physiological level. Two, the heart governs everything, even the blood to your "brain".

Lucho said...

I gotta agree 100% with you Marco. With out adequate hydration every single system in your body will not function properly. I would skip food before I would skip water. I would skip running before skipping water!

Lucho said...

Kerrie- You still have to send me a pic of your husbands tats! One of the greatest benefits to using a HR monitor is that you can cross reference PE and equate that perception to an actual data point. Then when you do take off the HR monitor your perception has some foundation to it. Also, from my coaching standpoint.. when I say to run at 20 beats below LT- I know exactly what that perceived exertion is because it close to my own at the same HR. If I tell a beginner runner to run 'moderate'.. well that may be just getting up off the couch for them but it's marathon pace for me- there's no quantifiable relation between their perception and my own. Kerrie- I know exactly what you are feeling when you are running at MAF. But I don't have a clue what you're feeling when you're running moderate.
I think the most important aspect of using a HR monitor is consistency. If you use one enough and also educate yourself on HOW to read it and what the numbers mean, then over an extended period of time you start to get a picture of your PE in relation to HR. No, the HR isn't always the same as PE- but that's the value of using it! There is a reason WHY it isn't the same. To ignore that reason is ignoring your body's response to stress. When I see a high HR- I never think "it's wrong", There is no right or wrong. Your heart rate is responding to a stimulus- whether that be dehydration, fatigue, rest, stress.. I can recognize problems by using HR in conjunction with PE.

GZ said...

Uli ... I think you got to be kidding on the hydration is overrated comment.

Uli said...

I only said it is overrated. People should train from time to time without water. In a marathon you will not be able to fully rehydrate because it would kill your stomach. Get used to it.

Your brain dictates how much blood it needs from the heart, not the other way round. Your heart will not fail at the end of a marathon. Your muscles will be close to doing so.

Do what you want. I keep applying latest science. I encourage everyone again to read Matt Fitzgerald's "brain training for runners".