tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post4124671527437155367..comments2024-02-26T01:37:03.845-07:00Comments on Joghard: Thoughts on quality VS quantityLuchohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07992289866901355978noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-82665963227100557212013-05-09T17:00:45.419-06:002013-05-09T17:00:45.419-06:00Awesome. Thanks for the input. Just knowing it s...Awesome. Thanks for the input. Just knowing it should be around Zone 2 effort helps a lot as I have a pretty good sense of the PE for that. <br /> <br />Many thanks for taking the time. I've been browsing around the blog and love it. Keep up the good thoughts and writing.<br />DaveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-69105009829166198702013-05-09T15:13:39.429-06:002013-05-09T15:13:39.429-06:00A few things jump out here. Maffetone used 180 as ... A few things jump out here. Maffetone used 180 as a mean Vo2 max for his formula... NOT max HR. Your max is lower than 180 which means the formula is not correct for you. I've seen this often in both directions. MAF formula is wrong for you. <br /><br /> 26 weeks is too long for a base period and using the incorrect HR for that has a couple of implications... either you're bad ass fit now at the high end or you've deteriorated your base by training too intensely. Possibly both. <br /><br /> I would say to drop your MAF HR down to ~120-130 and see what happens there. Based on your 5k HR this range is not far off of what the MAF idea is supposed to be. You should be able to comfortably run ~3+ hours at MAF and not need significant recovery after. And I think based off your 5k HR that range is generous. MAF falls roughly at ~20 beats below threshold and you should be able to hold ~5 beats over threshold for a 5k. SO really extrapolation by data would put you in the 115-125 range. Not sure that feels correct though. <br /> Try 120-130 for a couple of weeks and see how that feels. It equates to Zone 2 effort. <br /><br /> 5000ft altitude shouldn't have a profound effect. Unless you've been there less than a couple of months. <br /><br /> I think you're pace is so fast/ hard because the MAF formula is wrong. Drop that range and if you have time then spend a few weeks there. Test immediately and track the progress. Luchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992289866901355978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-88507025876428544532013-05-09T14:48:22.539-06:002013-05-09T14:48:22.539-06:00Hey Lucho,
Thanks for the quick response - really ...Hey Lucho,<br />Thanks for the quick response - really appreciate it. <br />Here are a few stats:<br />I'm 36, Max HR from an 800m run test a few years ago was 175. Also live at altitude (5000ft).<br /><br />My MAF formula HR works out to be 180-36+5 = 149. Most of my 5km races will average about 151bpm at most. <br /><br />If I am doing mile repeats on the track I'll probably hit 153-155bpm and around 5:50pace.<br />History has mostly been Marathons and a couple of IM's. Moving to Ultra's this year for the first time. I've had a good solid 26weeks of aerobic base building getting over some injuries with very little intensity. Very curious about Maffetone's work but very conscious that at the HR he prescribes could just dig me a very big hole very quickly. <br />Typically I have done my easy runs really easy (like 2mins/mile slower than marathon pace) and my hard runs hard. That changed a little in my last marathon build with some solid tempos in the 16mi range that really seemed to give me a boost. Still nowhere near MAF HR though. Could altitude be that much of a difference maker?<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Dave<br /><br /><br />David McMillanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14908080467488720227noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-65208636315517596892013-05-09T10:56:20.630-06:002013-05-09T10:56:20.630-06:00Dave-
How old are you? What HR ranges are you usi...Dave-<br /> How old are you? What HR ranges are you using? Do you have any race HR data? What's the highest HR you've ever seen during a run? Do you know your lactate threshold HR? And what race distances are you focused on? Luchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992289866901355978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-35823371341093297662013-05-09T10:43:24.022-06:002013-05-09T10:43:24.022-06:00Lucho,
Great post and just running across it today...Lucho,<br />Great post and just running across it today for the first time. I'd love to tap your MAF knowledge as I'm not getting a clear answer from anyone on an issue I am running into. Most folks seem to find MAF training to easy and the pace too slow. I've had 19years of running (and a lot of base) and my MAF HR pace is basically what I hold in a 5k. There's now way that I could realistically use this for regular training efforts - It's just way too hard. <br /><br />It sounds like you might have run into this too with your pace getting down low. Is it just a switch to other forms of intervals at this point to keep building speed and progressing or have you picked out a 'reasonable' HR that can still advance the aerobic system as well?<br /><br />Love to know your thoughts.<br />Thanks,DaveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-78996436573142931472012-10-04T12:53:34.351-06:002012-10-04T12:53:34.351-06:00I'll make sure they get in Chris, both of them... I'll make sure they get in Chris, both of them. They're good questions. Thanks! Luchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992289866901355978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-50277808805839740622012-10-04T12:03:57.432-06:002012-10-04T12:03:57.432-06:00Grr. Too late. No problem. I'll resubmit on Mo...Grr. Too late. No problem. I'll resubmit on Monday.Chris Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16921717521387649600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-40545407812644239032012-10-04T09:27:26.422-06:002012-10-04T09:27:26.422-06:00 Thanks Chris- It might be best to wait for the po... Thanks Chris- It might be best to wait for the post on Monday calling for questions! Luchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992289866901355978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-87115436309808747692012-10-04T09:02:03.605-06:002012-10-04T09:02:03.605-06:00Lucho-I know you podcast on Mondays. I love that s...Lucho-I know you podcast on Mondays. I love that show! I'm going to submit my question now.Chris Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16921717521387649600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-26587069392073131912012-10-04T08:20:52.569-06:002012-10-04T08:20:52.569-06:00 Chris- I do a weekly podcast for Endurance Planet... Chris- I do a weekly podcast for Endurance Planet. Every Monday they ask for questions on their facebook page, these would be good questions for the podcast! Luchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992289866901355978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-6897170768388719312012-10-04T08:19:05.511-06:002012-10-04T08:19:05.511-06:00Jill- I'll help anyone willing to work hard! j...Jill- I'll help anyone willing to work hard! jogdaddy at gmail. Luchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992289866901355978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-11081661685198119662012-10-04T08:17:07.957-06:002012-10-04T08:17:07.957-06:00Thanks Steve. I've done the MAF over-kill whic... Thanks Steve. I've done the MAF over-kill which isn't good. MAF just prepares our body for hard work! <br />Luchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992289866901355978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-28105073070905064382012-10-03T22:10:33.958-06:002012-10-03T22:10:33.958-06:00Thanks for an amazing post! I had a horrible foot...Thanks for an amazing post! I had a horrible foot problem I dealt with for about 2 years which has left my fitness pretty much in the toilet because I mentally just gave up. Now I'm fighting to get back out there and just can't seem to find the right way; everything I'm doing seems to be "wrong" and I'm making zero progress. Do you help coach ordinary runners, like me, get back on the ground....running? (you coach my blog friend, Ana Maria). Regardless, thanks much for the post, I will absorb it all. Jillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10174883718651790845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-33715361688642659012012-10-03T11:56:53.574-06:002012-10-03T11:56:53.574-06:00Yet another question Lucho. (Just let me know when...Yet another question Lucho. (Just let me know when you're sick of me. Ha ha.)<br /><br />Do you have any advice on what to do when you're following a plan and you go away for a few days. For example, my in-laws live in Queens, NY. We go up for a long weekend every couple of months. Running up there is no problem. I basically just do circles through the neighborhoods of Forest Hills. A very posh, exclusive community. (This is not, btw, where my in-laws live.) But running is pretty much all I can do up there. There's a certain amount of self-imposed stress involved during the season when I can't get that ride and/or swim is. <br /><br />I know I should just relax and do what I can. But do you have any specific advice on how to handle this?Chris Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16921717521387649600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-69396935097192685542012-10-01T14:42:22.646-06:002012-10-01T14:42:22.646-06:00Man, I'm late reading this because I've be...Man, I'm late reading this because I've been away at a race this weekend!<br />Wanted to mention that this post is fantastic and is what I'm always looking for in running advice.<br />I'll also mention that I have been a Maffetone die hard runner since 2004 and drank that kool-aid of only running slow until I heard several of your ATU podcasts, started adding back in tempo runs, dropped the mileage a bit and I'm running (somewhat) fast again. (I'm 60) ;-)<br />Thanks for this and the podcasts, Lucho!Steve Perohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233567281691642089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-40152496771827088642012-09-28T12:45:19.988-06:002012-09-28T12:45:19.988-06:00Thanks again for your thoughts. They are much appr...Thanks again for your thoughts. They are much appreciated. <br /><br />I'd be interested to hear your thoughts in a blog on nutrition as well. There's so much noise and fads (at least I perceive them to be fads) out there. Ben's ketogenic stuff. Joe Friel's paleo. I'm sure they're fine ways to go, but it seems to me pretty much all elite endurance athletes eat a normal diet. Those who go gluten free--Timothy O'Donnell--do so because of allergies, and not because they're following a particular diet. I recall reading an interview about a year ago with TJ Tollakson who said he eats meat, potatoes, whole fat milk, veggies, rice, etc. In other words, normal food. I could really ramble on about this but it's hard for me to believe that 10 years from now people will be talking about paelo and high fat diets. And what about Asian diets. Lots of white rice and noodles. Euros didn't start getting fat until more women entered the workplace. Less time to prepare each meal. They ate loads of breads and pastas. The point is, the logic doesn't always hold up. Then you add in the expense of eating paleo, for example. Do you know how much quality meat costs? A LOT! I know because I buy plenty of it.<br /><br />Anyway, I'd love to hear your thoughts.Chris Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16921717521387649600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-69219536004175786302012-09-27T13:37:18.336-06:002012-09-27T13:37:18.336-06:00Chris- You'll need to rely on PE and HR, but t...Chris- You'll need to rely on PE and HR, but that's fine and good. On a rolling course you need to (if you can) hold effort down the hills and because it is downhill you rely on PE and HR. Not much else to do there! On flat sections really focus on the feel of 22mph and try to develop a good sense of PE. HR is also plenty effective. <br /> And you absolutely need to spend time at above goal speed/ effort. I would do something more like 10:00 at goal speed/ HR. Then 5:00 above. Then rest for ~5:00 with easy spinning. Repeat this with volume focus like ~2:00 worth. But really there are a million ways to structure this. Your example works fine too and the recovery aspect (5:00 under 22) is effective as long as you are fit enough to also do adequate volume within this session. Obviously recovering at a somewhat fast speed is tougher. The main focus in this session is the time spent at and over goal speed, so don't compromise these aspects, rest accordingly. <br /> Also doing focused TT's at 23-24 mph is effective. This should be close to threshold which is good. For the 1/2 IM your functional threshold really does matter so don't neglect this. <br /> And getting a trainer will without doubt give you good options. Nothing beats a hard trainer session!Luchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992289866901355978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-21207753156340396232012-09-27T12:46:15.589-06:002012-09-27T12:46:15.589-06:00Hey Lucho, There's a great video that's ju...Hey Lucho, There's a great video that's just been posted on Chris Lieto's bike training on the big Island. Well, I assume he does pretty much the same training everywhere but that's where it's shot. He describes the importance of working at and above race pace to improve. Sounds like a good idea, right? <br /><br />My question is how to incorporate that sort of training when I ride on rolling terrain? I live just outside Washington, DC, so pretty much everywhere is rolling. I don't train with power only because I can't afford to buy a power meter. I don't have an indoor trainer either although that's on the to buy list for the winter. I imagine the next best thing is to train by pace. Let's say I want to average 22 mph for a 1/2. I could do 5 minutes under 22, 10 minutes at, and 10 minutes over. So, to finally bring this back around to my point, how should I work this on the hills? Thanks, ChrisChris Holbrookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16921717521387649600noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-83488466351656372292012-09-25T18:16:37.495-06:002012-09-25T18:16:37.495-06:00 Bill- jogdaddy@gmail.com Drop me a line! Bill- jogdaddy@gmail.com Drop me a line! Luchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992289866901355978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-9134420889425884812012-09-25T18:02:44.688-06:002012-09-25T18:02:44.688-06:00Tim
How does one hire you as a coach. You are on...Tim<br /><br />How does one hire you as a coach. You are one bright dude!<br /><br />BillBill Walzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00062542571657925165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-77517127735107651542012-09-25T09:23:49.016-06:002012-09-25T09:23:49.016-06:00Thank you PJ and Vert! Thank you PJ and Vert! Luchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992289866901355978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-81120721867047566172012-09-25T09:21:27.444-06:002012-09-25T09:21:27.444-06:00Lucho's blog...pretty much taught me everythin...Lucho's blog...pretty much taught me everything I know about running. Not a joke. Someday, I would like to call you "coach."<br />Thanks for sharing,<br />JerStay Verticalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17227232986210817496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-6211066658942785562012-09-22T16:07:09.276-06:002012-09-22T16:07:09.276-06:00Another great post! Thanks for all this great insi...Another great post! Thanks for all this great insight.PaulDJessehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10343997067580210834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-82881064393903344492012-09-22T10:42:36.632-06:002012-09-22T10:42:36.632-06:00Ska- You're exactly what I'm talking about...Ska- You're exactly what I'm talking about. Build a PROPER base and speed work does not kill. Same with long runs. If an athlete is patient enough and doesn't cut corners then they they are not risky and they don't hurt you. Nice work! Luchohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07992289866901355978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5857054182085881319.post-44902044849953958662012-09-22T08:34:04.719-06:002012-09-22T08:34:04.719-06:00Great Post!
It was perfect to read at this point ...Great Post!<br /><br />It was perfect to read at this point in my training. I spent a year building a foundation and listening to my body. I feared injury all the time. I wasn't ready for speed work yet, even though I knew it was an integral part. Two weeks ago, I craved for the "quality" workouts and I felt ready and my body was telling it was time. Last week I did my first track workout since high school (I am 42) and I feared I would be destroyed after. Come on, it is intervals, the most hated day of high school track. But, it felt great and I am craving for the next work out.<br /><br />Thanks for the great post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com